This is in response to Proud Atheist’s post called: “Things Christians Should Know Before Talking to an Atheist” I have put what he said in quotes. Mine are without quotes unless I used scripture.
“Hitler was NOT an atheist.”
Okay, but he wasn’t a Christian either. When one puts the life of Christ next to Hitlers the differences are obvious.
“Morality is not a ‘believers only’ state of conscience. Morality existed before the Bible was put together and translated, etc.”
Yes, we understand this. We understand that God has written His law on our hearts.
“Do NOT pray for us or indicate the notion to perform your ritualistic mumbo jumbo. There are millions of others that are ill and starving that might appreciate your spells of madness. These are the people that your so called “God” ignores or tests(supposedly).”
I will not pray for you.
I probably won’t pray for the ill and starving. I will pray for those who are within my sphere of contact. If they are atheists, ill or starving I will pray for them. If they are not I will pray for them.
“Atheists do NOT hate your god. How can one hate something that does not exist? Do you hate leprechauns?”
How do you NOT hate God? I think leprechauns are adorable… except for that one in that movie.
“When you say, ” I believe” or “I have faith in Jesus” to us atheists, it’s a clear indication that you have the delusion of imaginary people, like some children do. In either case…it’s due to indoctrination.”
That’s fine but to say that it is due to indoctrination is inaccurate. Some of us have thought critically about our faith… but then again it is based on faith, which you don’t seem to understand.
“Atheists seem to know the Bible better than most Christians.”
I have not heard/read of one atheists that knows the Bible better than most Christians, save one. Most atheists I have read try and interpret the Bible by bringing their own preconceived notions to the text. The same can be said for Christians. I believe that most don’t read the Bible as they ought to. Example: When reading a letter of Paul one should first understand that Paul was writing a letter to a specific ecclesia or person or both. He was not writing a letter to us, though we can cross the contextual bridge so that we can apply the truths he talked about to our own situation.
“The Bible is not proof of any presence of a deity or the makings of all things.”
Agreed. God is His own proof and His creation is the proof of His makings.
“The United States was NOT founded on Christianity. That is why the founders of this nation LEFT Europe.”
I am not to savvy on this debate. All I know is that America is not a Christian country, so I guess there really is no point in discussing this one. I would say that if one wanted to escape the Christianity of the USA then they could move to anti-Christian Europe.
“Evolution is not just for atheists.”
Honest question: Who else is it for?
“I do not need to be ’saved’ nor will I be present for ‘God’s judgment day’.”
I am not sure how to respond to this. I guess that if my faith is bunk then you would be correct.
“Jesus was NOT the first…to be born of a virgin, perform miracles, and to be resurrected.”
So you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, performed miracles, and resurrected?
“The burden of proof for the existence of your god rest solely on YOUR shoulders. Can you prove that elves do not exist?”
How about if we take the burden off each other and put it on the shoulders of God. Now the burden rests with Him. As for your second question I can’t prove that elves exist but I did enjoy the movie. Will Ferrell is hilarious.
“Emotions like love and faith do not come from your heart. The function of the heart is to pump blood. Emotions and thoughts are stimulated within the brain.”
When heart is used in the Bible it is not talking about the pumping muscle in our chest. You are trying to interpret the Bible by what you know today and have not tried understanding the Bible in its original context.
“Quoting or writing a Bible verse to an atheist is a waste of time and energy, since these verses were written by obviously insane humans.”
Allow me to waste your time:
“Love your enemies” -Matt. 5:44
“Get rid of of all bitterness, rage, and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” -Ephesians 4:31-32.
These two must have been insane… obviously 
“Not all atheists are scientists or intellectuals. Many of us are blue-collared working folks. We are from all walks of life.”
Not all scientists or intellectuals are atheists. Many of them believe in at least some form of deity. They are from all walks of life… I am beginning to sound like a NBC commercial hosted by the cast from HERO’S.
I admit that I do not understand Atheist’s beliefs too well. I do understand that we are all human and that if you decide to never believe in God that is your business. I never try and beat people over the head with my Bible. I will try and be friends with those people around me no matter what they choose to believe in. I will end with this challenge: It is now your turn to admit that you do not understand Christian’s beliefs too well.
bondChristian (3)
Mike aka MonolithTMA (2)
Fletcher (1)
Renee Johnson (1)
atheists are fools; the LORD says so in His psalms.
d.
Two links to me in one post, you’re making me blush.
Let me respond point for point.
The only time I ever discus Hitler’s spiritual beliefs is when Christians try to lump him in with atheist dictators trying make the point that people like that are what atheism MUST lead too. I find that every bit as ridiculous as trying to claim that The Inquisition and The Salem Witch Trials are what theism MUST lead to. How silly.
As to God writing his law on our hearts and that being the source of all morality, I find that hard to believe because morality as we know it has changed drastically over the millennia. I realize that many Christians get around this by stating that everything pre-cross was a different covenant, but that doesn’t change the fact that today we find the massive slaughter of our enemies to be appalling, but back in the OT it was just dandy. Not to mention some of the drastically different morality that has evolved around the world in different societies.
I have no problem with people praying for me or anyone else for that matter. If their prayers are sincere and they truly have my well being at heart, then that means they are caring human beings and that is a good thing.
As to hating God or gods. There are acts attributed to gods that I find reprehensible and I hate those acts, but as to hating things I don’t believe in, that only goes so far. I hate Darth Vader as he is attacking other characters that I’ve grown to like, but I don’t actually hate Darth Vader since he isn’t real to me. Sure he could be real in some alternate universe somewhere. Perhaps every work of fiction creates an alternate universe somewhere. That makes me want to go find and re-read my Myst books, which were based on the famous game Myst.
I think the thing that drives most atheists crazy about faith is that most atheists don’t accept the premises of your logic. We all base what we believe on our experiences. Some of us have experienced things that we attribute, or in my case attributed, to God, and some do not. Sometimes those experiences can be nearly identical. One woman’s faith is another woman’s coincidence.
As to atheists knowing the Bible better than most Christians, it mostly depends on their background. You’ll find many on ex-christian.net and certainly John W. Loftus of debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/ will know the Bible as well if not much better than I do. Ex Christians who made a practice of really studying the Bible tend to retain a lot of that.
As to the Bible being proof. This only gets brought up because of the “Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so.” mentality espoused by many Christians who then actually try to use it as proof. Personally, I’m much more impressed by how someone lives their life, what fruit they show if you will, than what their book says. I’m reminded of an old song we sang at camp. They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Love.
As far as the America is a Christian nation debate goes, there are some Christians who try to make such a claim and then also claim that the founders were all Christians. Of course you have things like the Pledge of Allegiance which didn’t have God in it until McCarthyism, there’s something similar about the In God We Trust thing. I think it’s precisely because people don’t really trust in God that they get so fearful that someone is going to take him away. :-/
“Evolution is not just for atheists.”
“Honest question: Who else is it for?”
I know quite a few Christians who believe that God could have created life however he wanted, including evolution. A lot of Christians believe in Theistic Evolution. Does believing in the incredibly complex process of evolution make the concept of God any more wondrous? Not to me, both pre and post de-conversion.
Regarding judgment day: “I guess that if my faith is bunk then you would be correct.” I think that is exactly his point. No one will know until that day does or does not come.
“Jesus was NOT the first…to be born of a virgin, perform miracles, and to be resurrected.”
“So you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, performed miracles, and resurrected?”
Silly rabbit, Tricks are for kids! Of course, he was talking about the claims that those things happened to Jesus.
The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. If I proclaim emphatically that GOD DOES NOT EXIST then I had better be able to prove it, especially if I am making an argument. Visa versa for those who make similar emphatic claims about God’s existence and expect others to believe it too. Oh, and elves totally exist to those of us that love J.R.R. Tolkien.
Totally agree on the heart/emotion thing. I just flashed back to GTR’s When The Heart Rules The Mind
As to Bible verses, yep, there are some wonderful ones. And yes, the two you quoted are favorites of mine and quite radical.
The last section about not all atheists being scientists and not all scientists being atheists reminds me of the Depeche Mode song People are People
I know your post was lighthearted, but I thought there were some great points of conversation in there so I chimed in.
And then I see hebfour’s comment and it makes me sad.
And to hebfour I say:
Matthew 5:22 (New International Version)
22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[a]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,[b]‘ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Mike,
Sorry about your first comment not going through. If there are two links it is held for review. I am looking forward to reading your response later tonight. I hope your were kind.
I would read it right now but my wife is bored and needs me
to be with her, which I don’t mind in the least.
I’ll respond soon.
Oh, that’s ok, I have no problem with comment moderation.
I always try to be kind.
Please, go give attention to your wife, too many married couples just ignore each other. I’d give just about anything to have my fiance here now, but sadly, she still lives in Boston and will until we are married.
When the heart rules the mind. After checking the video I am assuming that you are about 6 years older than me. Dido for that second video.
I think my main problem with proud atheist’s post is that he really didn’t give a reason for the things he lists off. Also he just lumped all atheists into the same group, which just can’t be done.
Thanks for your insights. Your approach is sane and
likable. We obviously have a difference of opinion when
it comes to God’s existence but we are able to talk about
ideas in a mature manner. Thanks.
hebfour,
So are you saying that atheists are fools or are you saying that God is saying that atheists are fools?
About the burden of proof. I totally agree that it belongs to the one making a claim. I have not heard one person suggest that yet.
I agree that all atheists can’t be lumped together, but that is exactly what a lot of Christians do, so I’m sure that is why Proud Atheist wrote it that way.
As to my age, I was born in 1969, the summer of love.
9 years older than me. The video’s reminded me of something my sister would have been into. She was born in 1972.
David: “hebfour,
So are you saying that atheists are fools or are you saying that God is saying that atheists are fools?”
If I may—the point of the distinction you are trying to make is what, exactly? That it’s acceptable to judge others as “fools” because it’s “backed” by “God”? Is that it? Or, is the suggestion that he/she(“hebfour”) shouldn’t be extracting and promoting scripture..i.e..”God’s Word(s)”, if it something unagreeable, unpleasant, or inhumane?…in this case, calling entire groups of people “fools”. Thanks in advance.
As far as “foolish”, when it comes to non-belief, it seems to me that it’s not very considerate, nor very “unfoolish”, for believers to presume that nonbelievers have the ability to simply “choose” to belief what they do not/cannot find believable—whether making such a “choice” would be to avoid being called “fool” by “God”, or anyone else.
boomSLANG(Agnostic Atheist)
I wanted to say thanks to whoever put this post on Stumbleupon. Just to let you know I do not mind if you want to put another post from here on there… whoever you are. Thanks!
You’re welcome!
Ah! Proud Atheists, thanks.